Interview with KKE's Kostas Papadakis on Why KKE Does Not
Support SYRIZA: "We Are Against the EU, NATO, and Chains of
Capitalism"
by Andraos Gil
Greek Communist Party (KKE) MEP Kostas Papadakis firmly
says: "SYRIZA has made very clear that it is not going to defy the EU or
NATO. We say: What kind of left is
this?"
Is Greece turning
left with the expected victory of SYRIZA?
First, it is necessary to clarify that the Communist Party
of Greece (KKE) should emerge stronger after the elections because, we believe,
there will continue to be concrete facts against the interests of people. The change of government will not change
crucial aspects, such as the fact that the country will still be in the EU, the
fact that the stability pact and the memorandum will not disappear, the fact
that this agenda of the EU will remain the same. All these reactionary measures will continue
to exist.
The second factor is that the debt of the country will still
be here. We are fighting to exit the EU
and to completely cancel the debt. We
want to exit the EU, but on the condition that the means of production are
socialized. Now people must defy all the
power of the oligarchy. The day after
the elections, the oligarchy will still be here.
That is why we ask people to keep this in mind, for, after
the elections, people will still be on the opposite side. Since SYRIZA in the opposition obtained 27%
of the votes, there has been a decline in social conflict. We say that this applies to Spain, too, where
the year of PODEMOS's emergence also saw a fall in mobilizations. People think that voting alone can change the
conditions of life, but we say it is important for people to convince
themselves that there are neither saviors nor messiahs, that people must save
themselves by their own struggles, by their own decisions, and by confronting
the EU, NATO, and monopolies.
Are you comparing
SYRIZA to PASOK or New Democracy?
SYRIZA has made very clear that it is not going to defy the
EU or NATO. What kind of left is
this? The term Left has concrete
criteria: against the EU and NATO, fighting to exit them, to confront
entrepreneurs and the oligarchy.
Entrepreneurs have already said that they will welcome "SYRIZA's
radicalism." The same
contradictions apply to the EU, where the talk is about more expansive or
restrictive policies, but this doesn't change the lives of people. We have heard about Draghi's program: it has
a condition, for the program to exist -- the memorandum. And SYRIZA says that we will follow the
European program, with its rules and standards.
New Democracy says that we must stick with the debt; so does SYRIZA,
albeit with a haircut. But our people
have endured the biggest cuts, accompanied with the harshest measures to pay
the debt. And there will be more
measures to pay the debt, though that is hidden. SYRIZA's Rena Dourou, the governor of the
Attica region, has already done the opposite of what she said.
But SYRIZA really
says that it will be changing things.
They say that they will get rid of the memoranda, but they
have concrete requirements. Which law
against the workers will you change?
Which one against the pensioners?
All those measures taken by New Democracy will still be there. What does SYRIZA propose to do? They say that they offer the Thessaloniki
program, which was originally conceived for the first 100 days and to tackle
the social emergency. But now it turns
out that the program is for four years.
But what the program does is charity meals and electricity for the
poorest, plus a minimum wage of â¬750 per
month for those covered by collective agreements. Those who have part-time jobs do not benefit
from this. That's the reality. People have lost much of their pensions, and
SYRIZA's response is to add â¬1.20 per
day to the lowest. This doesn't change
life, and we are telling people that it doesn't. New Democracy cultivates fear; and SYRIZA,
illusions. But if we want some relief,
we have to fight for it, and this is a red line -- [to recover] the loss since
2008.
So, you won't support
Tsipras for prime minister.
For all these reasons, given responsibility to the people,
having closely examined what SYRIZA said, we cannot take part in a bourgeois
capitalist government, under which this barbarity will continue. A week ago SYRIZA implored us to give it our
vote to form a government, but it didn't' do so sincerely because they know our
long-standing positions; and we will stand opposite this government because it
will be in the hands of the oligarchy while staying in the EU. We cannot stain our hands, we cannot take a
leap of faith, while the people are on the other side from it. Moreover, the most rotten elements of PASOK
have joined the ranks of SYRIZA, including deputies who have voted for the
memoranda and boycotted the working-class and trade union movement.
Are you going to take
to the streets from day one?
We have a great capacity for mobilization and major presence
in the unions. These ideas put forward
by SYRIZA are meant to create an alibi for the day after. The Greeks hold the KKE in high esteem, ours
is a serious, militant, and cool-headed party, and what SYRIZA wants is to use
us as its alibi, to demobilize people, to get rid of struggle. We understand SYRIZA and from the very first
moment we will be in the streets, and they hold that against us. But we say: If there really were a government
of the Lefts, and, we would hope, if it were a good government for the people,
the KKE would not be fighting against it.
They are afraid that having the KKE facing their government may unmask
the fact that they are going to be responsible for what's happening.
How can you be so
sure?
We have experience in the movement of the European communist
parties, in Italy, in France, that voted for agreements on wages, pensions, and
privatizations in the morning and in the afternoon organized mobilizations
against the same agreements they had voted for in the morning. We have come to conclusions based on these
negative experiences, and we want a government against the EU and the
oligarchy, and we won't be jumping into the void. We will not participate in discussions about
what people are going to lose by government decisions -- people need us the day
after the elections. SYRIZA and its government
are committed to businesspeople in Texas, the Bilderberg Club, the City of
London. . . They are already committed
to big capital.
That idea about
SYRIZA is not very widely shared,
Outside Greece, no.
But here we know that they are not a revolutionary party -- quite the
opposite. People who vote for SYRIZA do
so with cold hearts, without having confidence in them. People are desperate and do not want to
continue with New Democracy, but the idea that there can't be a worse
government has already been used regarding previous governments. It's clear that what we are saying will
happen. The EU has no fear of
SYRIZA. SYRIZA is not the oligarchy's
first choice, but it is the new face of social democracy, useful for the
system, which SYRIZA won't counteract for the sake of the working class. We must organize the struggle to challenge
them.
Do you really
consider yourselves to be a revolutionary party?
There are concrete facts that demonstrate it: we are
fighting against the EU and NATO, we want to break the chains of capitalism,
socialize the means of production, centralize all wealth to distribute it, as
well as the labor force, so that there won't be problems of unemployment. Our country has wealth and a great strategic
location to the north of the Mediterranean.
We have technology, science, progress in all the means of production,
people should be able to enjoy this progress, but there exists this
contradiction. There has not been
another period of history that saw people even dying of cold when there were
power plants all over the place.
Doesn't the collapse
of the USSR generate doubts in your mind?
We have studied it a lot.
And we have arrived at the conclusion that there were great benefits in
the socialization of the means of production.
The key lies in the fact that they sought to solve the emerging problems
by capitalist, not socialist, responses.
With the reforms in the 60s the market entered and so did antagonism,
creating concrete problems that grew over the years and generated negative
consequences in the direction of the party.
The main point is that in a socialist country problems
cannot be solved by capitalist measures -- we can solve them only by socialist
ones. We have learned from these
experiences, and it is important to have your own program, and the Communist
Party of Greece organizes the struggle not only around daily problems but also
with its perspective. People must know
which path is the one you propose and do not trust the parties that are not
clear. We are very clear. And SYRIZA, New Democracy, and PASOK follow
the path of capitalism. We are the only
ones who have a completely different political proposal -- a radical path.
We are known for having predicted what was going to
happen. In 2010 we said a storm was
coming. And we were right. People know that the party reads the reality
well and that it is a militant party that tells the truth despite consequences. Notwithstanding the easy paths offered by
some, people in Greece are living a very grave crisis with grave consequences
and are now aware that life cannot be easily changed by just voting. We do not say that SYRIZA is the same as New
Democracy, they are different parties, but when you have a concrete strategy
that has the same priority of serving for the benefits of capital and the EU,
objectively it takes you to the same place: capitalism, capitalist production,
and the EU.
Do SYRIZA and New
Democracy have so much in common?
Theirs are different versions of capitalism, but the
differences are not crucial when it comes to the essence of what type of
policies they will promote. In the 80s
PASOK used to talk about exiting the EEC (European Economic Community) and
NATO, and they used to also talk about socializing the means of production. .
. But, now, SYRIZA doesn't even say
that.
In Spain there is a party with which we share the same
strategy, the Communist Party of the Peoples of Spain (PCPE), and it is a party
fighting to keep the light of the only path that can show people an exit. The rest -- both PODEMOS and the Communist
Party of Spain (PCE), which has changed since accepting eurocommunism and
becoming pro-European Union -- want to prettify the EU, to be able to have a
better EU. And this is dangerous for
people, for they have support -- illusions captivate with the idea that one way
or another it is possible to negotiate with Merkel or the IMF to get the enemy
to adopt pro-people positions. This
really is a utopia.
We are clear: this high road is difficult, but we have to
fight to exit the EU. To cultivate the
illusion that a hawk can become a dove -- that's wishful thinking. That is why we say that PODEMOS in our
opinion is doing the same thing as SYRIZA, beginning with certain slogans, and,
over time, will become the same thing.
Iglesias has already said recently that they have listened to financial
allies and that there are unrealistic positions. We are talking about the new version of
social democracy adapted to the terms of the crisis. This is what capital needs. Since people no longer trust PASOK or PSOE,
despite their new leaders, new cards are dealt in the game, and people must be
strict when scrutinizing their positions while fighting their own struggle.
Do you think that
there can be rifts in the SYRIZA coalition?
In the history of social democracy there has always been a
left-wing current that said it would strive to shift the party. But there has been no proof that it could be
converted into a revolutionary one. A
left-wing current may have a blog, protest from time to time, but then quit
doing it.